Christopher Bruce: This is Christopher Bruce an attorney in south Florida I’m here today with Dr Basilea being in stock as. She is a therapist in the Palm beach gardens area with a group practice that sees clients are also virtually. Throughout the state And I’m really excited to talk to Dr Basilea about. trauma and divorce I’ve seen her speak at a couple of our local events for a therapist and she speaks to attorneys also about some of these concepts So so yeah Thank you so much for the time that you’ve taken to do this with us And before we get too much into the topic if you could just let people know kind of who you are and kind of how you came to here and we’ll continue with the conversation. Sure Yeah Well thank you for having me.
Dr. Vassilia Binensztok: I’m really glad to be here this morning. My name is Dr. Been in stock I’m a licensed mental health counselor. I do see clients myself I specialize in comp. trauma.
So people who have had trauma that has been chronic or long standing particularly childhood trauma. I also have a group prep mental health practice and we see people ages two all the way up to a hundred plus a and we do therapy in person or virtually throughout the state of Florida. But when we’re talking about. Trauma in divorce maybe before. We get too much into it.
Christopher Bruce: What is the trauma that does come up in divorce Everybody kind of knows what we’re talking about here. Yeah So I think trauma is kind of becoming a buzzword. Which has its advantages and disadvantages
Dr. Vassilia Binensztok: This advantage I think sometimes it’s a little misunderstood. So just to preface kind of talking about what trauma is. so the usual definition of trauma is just experiencing an event that overwhelms our ability. To cope with it. mentally and emotionally.
Something that overrides our ability to just. with stress because it’s. So scary so difficult sometimes life-threatening or something like that. I most people associate trauma even still in this day even though trauma is becoming this buzzword most people still associated with. Something like a veteran someone going to war.
Experiencing an awful event or an atrocity. And then having post-traumatic stress disorder PTSD. But the truth is there is such a wider range of how we’re starting to understand trauma. So. Lima That I just described That’s something that we would call a big T.
Right one single event trauma That’s a big event. That last and and stays with the person sometimes. But we also now know that there are traumas that we call little teas So they are smaller things that sometimes add up over time So they could be, you know being made fun of or humiliated by your partner. Small acts of emotional abuse that might go unseen. But they really ended up having a cumulative effect we’ve seen in the research that can often equal symptoms similar to someone who’s experienced a big T trauma.
So a lot of times if we’re going through divorce it also depends on the partner the person that they’ve been with and that they are divorcing And also if they’ve had any sort of trauma in their past, Yeah because traumas do tend to accumulate. So I’ll say they were with a narcissistic partner or they experienced any sort of emotional or physical abuse during the relationship They might be coming into the divorce with some trauma…
and then, you know divorce is can go on for years As you know they can be. Sometimes very nasty people trying to get revenge get back at each other sabotage each other. And really get in the way of the other person living their lives in a functional way So all of these things. can first of all be chronic and long standing So that’s different than just one event and done. And then there could be multiple bigger and smaller events that sort of layer on top of that experience.
I’m really leaving someone with a lot of the symptoms that we see in just post-traumatic stress…
Christopher Bruce: I just I heard one of the things you were saying And I just want to…make sure I heard you right. Sounded very important to me. You’re saying. Sometimes there’s some people be. The trauma that can build up and say a difficult relationship and on some ways be a equivalent to you know the the type of trauma that has like post traumatic stress disorder that, you know, maybe a a soldier or a police officer or somebody could.
You witnessed something very traumatic I would have…
Dr. Vassilia Binensztok: Yeah absolutely. I can definitely have some more effects and some of the things that we just don’t see behind closed doors you know obviously we know there’s physical abuse Unfortunately sexual abuse. Can it can be prevalent in some marriages People feel. Entitled to to their partner in that way. And emotional abuse Yeah emotional abuse is one of those things that just get swept under the rug It really goes unseen.
But the research has shown that it can be sometimes more damaging. Than physical abuse and the effects seem to last because they really erode someone’s self-esteem. And the words that someone else uses against us often become our own narrative. Even after where we’re no longer with that person So it’s a kind of trauma that can. Continue unfortunately…
Christopher Bruce: All right That is unfortunate And I think it’s really important people. Listening to this just recognize how much of an effect that…can have So when it comes to what triggers this type of. I’ll call it relationship trauma. Or trauma that comes up in an unhealthy relationship. sometimes in the divorce process.
What are those trigger points? Okay So it could be something that’s overt abuse or oftentimes it’s it’s it’s things that are really covert. You know so we’ll get a lot of these terms have become buzzwords and and just a general lexicon. Which is a good thing. I think that you know some people might overuse these words like gaslighting or narcissist or things like that.
Dr. Vassilia Binensztok: Yeah but at the same time it’s just bringing so much awareness because there’ve been so many people. Who are in relationships struggling. We’ve a relationship or actually after they’ve left, who still continue to have these emotional effects? And they used to not understand what had happened to them. So some of these things we do see in relationships where someone gets into a relationship.
And the partner’s really lovely just so wonderful It’s like a dream come true. And then not only does it come crashing down but then they’re experiencing some kind of emotional abuse like being told that they’re crazy or imagining things being told that they are the cause of the emotional conflict being told that they somehow caused the other person to have infidelity or something like that And. We’ve even seen that. Infidelity can have results that are similar to trauma So some of the symptoms of post-traumatic stress are replaying or reliving an event in your mind without trying to images just pop into your head and they seem they’re very distressing. And they’re very difficult to get rid of And they sometimes come at…
the most inopportune times and we’ve seen people who’ve been in a relationship where there was infidelity from the other partner. Having those kinds of symptoms to where they might be picturing their partner with another person. Imagining those things happening or having some of the negative the worthlessness or negative self-esteem. That we also see as a symptom of post-traumatic stress especially chronic post-traumatic stress. So to where they might feel worthless they might doubt if they’re good enough they might start to tear themselves apart emotionally or repeat to themselves you know some of the criticisms and insults that they receive from their partner.
And often people are left confused after experiences in which they are. Emotionally abused or gas lit or anything like that. And, you know we always we’re the kind of creatures that want to resolve something We want answers We want to understand why things happen. And a lot of times people experience that they end up blaming themselves…
Christopher Bruce: Wow. I think for anybody that’s thinking about going through the divorce process Processor even professionals like you and I helping somebody. And you know in some way through. Really important to understand that stuff. I’ve never heard a lot of things I haven’t exactly heard it put this way And that really makes me think about the type of care that…I have on.
lawyers have and we go about helping people through this process. so when it comes to actually going through a divorce or even the breakup of a relationship for people that are not married, How does this trauma affect someone…
Dr. Vassilia Binensztok: I think the number one thing I’ve seen is people who struggle to actually end the relationship. Because there’s there’s so much self doubt after awhile. And if you think about it you know this is a person that used to love maybe still love you know, And I’ve seen people wonder you know will this person change or they’ll pick up you know what we refer to as as breadcrumbs. You know so the person might. Make a promise or make some small temporary change And then.
The partner on the receiving end I…might start to doubt everything They’ve come to believe about the relationship about the partner. And hold on. those small glimmers of hope and those small breadcrumbs that something will get better. So the number one thing I’ve seen is just people kind of torment themselves in their own mind about whether or not they should stay in the relationship. And if it’s been a particularly toxic relationship and there’s been a lot of emotional abuse and blaming and gaslighting.
A lot of times there’s also a financial abuse. Or there are threats you know there are threats like. No one else could love you You could never make it without me You could never maintain your lifestyle. Or you won’t see a dime from me I’m going to make sure that you know everyone has a negative opinion of you You know, all of our friends are gonna think that you’re the bad one or something like that. So there’s also a lot of fear.
That if I leave this relationship first of all am I in the wrong? Am I giving up too soon Am I giving up something that could have been good Was I the one that made it bad and also is my life going to be destroyed if I leave this relationship So I see a lot of people torn and they can stay that way for a very long time…
Christopher Bruce: that’s, that’s a lot to go through If you’re somebody that’s already I mean leaving a relationships hard hard enough. That’s a whole lot. I process and I’m in I’ll tell you it’s like, I think anybody that’s listening to this this sounds like some of this stuff might sound a little extreme It’s not I mean it would almost sound like a facility you’ve been listening in on the client phone calls that we have because this is the type of stuff that. People are thinking is as they’re you know in the before during and sometimes even a little bit after the divorce process when they’re married to somebody that’s, you know a toxic person So I definitely. It’s fascinating stuff but it’s real.
so…we have this stuff going on People need to recognize it above. The cilia How, how do people try to minimize these. The effect that this trauma can can have on them when they’re approaching divorce or an ending a relationship to somebody that makes them feel this way what. What do they do about it?
Dr. Vassilia Binensztok: I think the number one thing to do is just get support is not stay silent.
You know there are so many people regardless of the, the mental health issue that they’re coming in to see me for that have this idea like they’re the only ones you know mental health problems tend to be very isolating. Just by nature and they make us feel like no one else could possibly feel this way Something is uniquely wrong with us. So even just telling somebody about your experiences getting some of that perspective, whether it’s a friend, a therapist, even you know your lawyer or a support group, As someone who’s maybe. Seeing this kind of thing before, or who knows you really well and can dispel. Some of these negative ideas that you might have about yourself I think that’s the most important thing So really having like a support team.
That can be made up of, you know, those people that I just, that I just mentioned and making sure to consistently check in because you know sometimes we all can do this to ourselves No matter the issue. We can build ourselves up and convince ourselves and be ready for something and change your mind if you’re good about something. And then, you know when we’re home at night by ourselves and anxiety starts to creep in, we can start to tear that apart. And go all the way back to doubting ourselves again So just making sure that you’re having consistent and regular support. And it’s the most important thing…
Christopher Bruce: So kind of closely related. You know when people are going through a breakup of a difficult relationship or marriage. Through the divorce process. If there’s kids. It gets harder.
And, you know just from your experience You know, Say somebody is listening to thinking you know my husband is going to make the divorce horror and I’m might be having some of these feelings that are being talked about here. Which is the best thing. They can do for their children when they approached that divorce or ended the relationship to minimize…any trauma they might be experiencing or that they might experience in the process…
Dr. Vassilia Binensztok: Yeah that’s a great question because that’s one of the things I hear so often. As being hesitant to leave a relationship or get a divorce because there are children involved And how is it going to affect the children? How will the other person, the other parent behave with the children What is it going to be like to co-parent with them? Often people don’t want a step parents in the in, in the situation They don’t want another person to come in and help Quote unquote raised our children. It’s all these things they commonly think about.
But I think it’s important for people to understand even though. There are things that could go wrong The other parent might try to. Turn children against you or something like that Unfortunately we do see these things. You do. some control over how this affects the children You know, one thing is just remembering if you’re in a high conflict relationship.
There’s no way to hide that from the kids You know everyone thinks that they are hiding it and then I’ll work with kids sometimes And they’re like all my parents are fighting They think I don’t know. Yeah. So it’s actually the research has shown it’s better for children’s mental health. After divorce if it was a high conflict relationship.
another thing to remember is that you can’t control what the other parent does but you can control what you do. So just being, you know you can be honest and open and transparent with your kids about what has happened. But I see some people who they think they’re protecting their kids by sort of fix Fixating on the other parent and nitpicking and trying to find out you know do this detective work to find out. What happened when the children were at the other parent’s house? We’re just talking about the other parent negatively and I understand where that would come from.
maybe trying to protect kids or maybe just because it’s built up so much and need somewhere to go. But, you know not engaging with that you know speaking to your adult peers. Talking to a therapist about your frustrations that is more helpful. And then just talking to kids about divorce There are a lot of great resources out there I find it helps. If children are at the age where more of their friend’s parents have been through divorce.
It starts to just kind of normalize it that you know this is something that happens in some families It’s not the end of the world. But there are some really great books out there. Four kids you know so parents can kind of read these to their kids. I think one is called divorce is not the end of the world you know And that’s probably my favorite one because it addresses co-parenting addresses being in two different households that addresses you know why did my parents get divorced Is it my fault or something like that Cause. Kids do tend to think of those things.
But I think if you support them and you kind of teach them but you know sometimes this happens. And it’s not the end of the world And some people get better after divorce You know some people really have…
better co-parenting relationships when they’re not together done Then when they are together…
Christopher Bruce: That’s great advice And I guess I just curious if you have any advice for the people that are giving advice to people in And through the divorce process they may be a divorce attorneys of the rural or mental health professionals whose…practice overlaps people who at times are are going through. The divorce Do you have any advice for for these people For me on how to be a I guess more thoughtful on a fashionable and helping your client who might be dealing with this type of prof trauma? As they’re going through. The separation process…
Dr. Vassilia Binensztok: Sure So the first thing that comes to my mind as you’re asking me that question. Is. You know just having compassion and patience. you know maybe trying to put yourself in that person’s shoes. Okay.
Therapist’s you know hopefully we we all do but the truth is you know we are human beings or their therapist or an attorney. And sometimes I can get frustrating I think to watch somebody waffle. So it can be frustrating to spend a lot of time and a lot of sessions with someone trying to get them to understand this is not their fault. Trying to get them to understand the other person the other partner’s actions. And they seem to be doing great And then they come in one day and it seems like it’s all been undone.
Right. And now they’re going back and maybe I should You know go back to the relationship Maybe I was the one who caused the problem. And I think that’s something that can test any professional you know Cause we we feel. We have so much empathy We feel like we’ve made progress if we get you to make progress And then when that backslides. That can be triggering for any professionals So just having that meta awareness, that that’s something that can happen It’s something that we call countertransference in our profession.
When the therapist experiences some sort of emotion…
based on emotional reaction to to the client which either reminds us of something we’ve been through or is triggering us in a more personal way instead of a professional way. So if you have that meta awareness that this is happening just having compassion that. This back and forth is part of the process. And that you know gains aren’t necessarily lost. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with the person It’s not that they’re not trying It’s not that they’re not listening.
It’s that. You know, they they’ve been you know maybe they’ve been in this relationship 10, 15, 20 years. And they’ve had. Hundreds of experiences where they say. You know this is my meat and this is how I felt violated.
And the other person size. How dare you say that to me you’re the one with the problem. You know so think about if you’ve exposed. that hundreds maybe thousands of times like I said this. Small T it’s like these little teasers little emotional abuse interactions…
Think about how hard it is to become certain of yourself after something like that So I think if we just reach into having that compassion and understanding that ups and downs and, you know progress and then backsliding it’s all part of a process…
Christopher Bruce: And I was like great advice And I think this interview will be going all around my law firm So thank you for…
So for the people that have been listening to this that are, you know, this is really resonating with them. Possibly that there there’s somebody that’s experiencing this trauma or they they know they are I mean maybe if you could speak for just a little bit. About your therapy practice and you know how are you and your your team of therapists? I can be reached what you help people with so that they can get in touch with this sounds like it might be all appropriate match…
Dr. Vassilia Binensztok: Yeah Sure So. I’m thinking about my therapy practices that we are all trauma informed. So even if someone who works here their focus isn’t mainly trauma Everyone has training in trauma is trauma informed. And and what that means is that we understand when we see issues like low self-esteem anxiety depression things that you might not associate with trauma we understand that there might be some component of that within, and just understanding that and taking that holistic approach of you know understanding the person through that lens. we are a group practice We are private so we don’t take insurance.
There are benefits to that. And one of the benefits is confidentiality And the fact that no one is dictating how often you can come or how long you can come. So a lot of people really like that kind of service and not having to wait on long waiting lists or anything like that. You have several clinicians and we do offer a range of fees We have some interns down at the lower end and so we try to accommodate everyone that we can. But we kind of we run the gamut we cover all these different specialties So we have.
therapists who specialize in play therapy Sandtray therapy where they’re working with kids as young as two years old. And we have someone who offers EMTR which is a trauma therapy and advanced trauma therapy. And we cover couples premarital, eating disorders trauma depression anxiety all the things. So we kind of are full service like practice for families in the county. Most people like to come see us in person in the Palm beach gardens office but a lot of people.
She used to do tele-health whether they live close by. Or anywhere else in the state of Florida…
Christopher Bruce: That’s perfect And if somebody wants to get in touch with you I mean we’ll have all the information on this video in the show notes but are maybe you just say your website if you’re on any of the social media at. They should be looking so they can hear it and follow up.
Dr. Vassilia Binensztok: Yeah sure So this is general counseling and wellness and our. is just Gino counseling.com Do you know is in Juno beach That’s where I got started. We do have a lot of social media We have an Instagram Juno counseling That’s for the practice.
I have a personal Instagram It’s just called Dr Basilea. And that’s where I talk about my own specialty only So I talk about mostly childhood trauma there. And how trauma is compounded and repeated. I’m also a survivor of childhood trauma And I often on that platform. We’ll share some of my own experiences in my own recovery.
You know recovering from that and becoming someone who you know became a helping professional. so yeah those are great ways to find us You can go through our website. Or you can just give us a call it’s on our website…
Christopher Bruce: Perfect. And a great time. And I think it’s a really important stuff for anybody to understand whether…you’re contemplating going through divorce maybe have went through it or if, if you know somebody that might be so. Dr Basilea thank you so much for taking the time to do this I really appreciate it. Yeah thank you so much I appreciate you having me…
